Nile – Karl Sanders
Posted on November 22, 2009 at 3:59 pm by admin
The famed death metal band to have middle eastern influences permeate every facet of their sound gave me to interview their last remaining original member, Karl Sanders. While some interpret Nile as a band with no members from the middle east (guitarist/vocalist Karl Sanders and guitarist/vocalist Dallas Toler-Wade are American while drummer George Kollias is Greek), my view is slightly different when I found out the story about the formation of the band. As it goes, Karl explains that he had played with drummer Pete Hammoura before creating Nile. Being that Pete was Lebanese, he and Karl would both listen to the music of Pete’s family, helping to create an interest in making a metal band with middle eastern influences until the day came when they finally formed Nile. The rest as they say is history!
Way Too Loud!: How did “Those Whom the Gods Detest” become the title song of the album?
Karl Sanders: It’s an interesting story. We always have a tough time trying to pick the album title. Usually it’s a debate within the band that rages for weeks, and weeks and weeks. This time time it didn’t take long at all. We just said this sounds like the biggest concept, the larger than life kind of thing on this record – maybe that’s what the fuck this record is called! Once we made that decision, we were like! Yeah! Right! Fuck yeah!
WTL: Does that sort of set the whole theme for the album?
Karl: Not necessarily. Several songs do have the themes of rebellion, and the denial of god. The rebellion against authority imposed in a religious manner.
WTL: What was the writing process like this time around? Was there anything done different?
Karl: Not so much. We’ve been including George [Kolias, drummer] in the songwriting process since “Annihilation of the Wicked”. It used to be that me or Dallas [Toler-Wade, guitarist] would make complete full-blown demos with guitar, drums, vocals, bass, keyboards. Everything! For the last 3 albums, it’s been a bit more streamlined where the demos were just simple guitar and click [tracks] and we’d let George write his own drums to try and get a more “band” type of experience. And even though George was in Athens, Greece, through the wonders of modern technology and the internet we were able to go back-and-forth with the songwriting. We’d go back and forth sending demos to each, so by the time George flew in and we started playing the stuff in the rehearsal room, we already had quite a bit of work done.
WTL: With the lyrics, is it an involving process trying to work hooks and choruses in with historical knowledge?
Karl: Well, it could be I suppose, and it’s kind of what I do, and I’ve been doing it with Nile for 15 years or so. It doesn’t see, like an impossible thing to me anymore.
WTL: What brought you to have Neil Kernon produce “Those Whom the Gods Detest”?
Karl: We reasoned that with Neil, Dallas and George and I that we’d learned an awful lot , both positive and negative making Nile records doing “Annihilation of Wicked” and “Ithyphalic”. Those were real learning and eye-opening experiences on what it takes to record this band and what it takes to mix and produce a Nile record. We felt like if we started with another producer, we’d be throwing all that hard-learned experience right out the window, but if we kept Neil on board with this record, we could put all the things we’d learned to good use.
WTL: There was a slight different though, as Erik Rutan had some involvement with the drums.
Karl: We had always wanted to work with Erik Rutan. Going quite aways back, we knew him from Morbid Angel and Hate Eternal, we kind kind of wanted a little bit of new, fresh blood, because we’d done 5 records at the Sound Lab with Bob Moore. We were kind of anxious to try new things, so having Erik record the drums was fresh move. We did some new stuff and stepped it up a notch. I don’t know if I’d call Erik a drum “producer”. He recorded the drums and did the engineering on the drums, but this is still Neils baby. During that part of the session, Neil was sort of like overlord, like admiral Kirk.
WTL: What kind of effect does Neil have? Does he give suggestions on how do something in a song?
Karl: Curiously enough, he’s certainly capable of doing that, but he doesn’t so much. Occasionally he might say “do that twice” or something, but as far as re-writing songs, he doesn’t fuck with us like that. His suggestions more take what we have, and make it more effective and more “hearable”. Sometimes he might say “try something like this”, but that’s kind of rare. I think Neil brings out your best performances, take what you do and focus it, and make it effective.
Sometimes he’ll say “Add this in”. One of my favourite parts is a keyboard part that Neil played in “Those Whom the Gods Detest”. Just subtlety of what he did was so… evil. It’s of my favourite parts!
WTL: Are there any new instruments on this new album that you haven’t used before?
Karl: I’m not sure if the glissintar was used before, but it was used on the title track. There’s also the Indian drilbue that’s on the front of “4th Arra of Dagon”. There might be a few other things here and there.
WTL: Is there a single planned for this album like you did with “Ithyphallic”?
Karl: We’ve been talking about which song we want to make a video of, and we’ve narrowed it down to 2 songs. It’s either going to be “Hittite Dung Incantation” or “Permitting the Noble Dead to Descend to the Underworld”, but the video is still being hotly debated at the moment, so we’ll have to wait and see!
WTL: How do you feel in this day and age, playing some super heavy music and talking about singles? Before it wasn’t quite like that. Maybe a little bit, but not like it is today.
Karl: I gotta tell you man, it feels weird! We’re not the Beetles! We’re certainly not Hall & Oates, so the idea of singles just seems preposterous from a metal standpoint. Ok, I’m game. As long as we’re not changing what we do, like trying to water down what we do and people want to latch on to one song, then ok, let ‘em! That’s ok! No harm done!
WTL: You’ve had some albums released in special packaging and special items, are there any plans for that with this album?
Karl: The Nuclear Blast guys have cooked up this sarcophagus package. I know that there’s a tour poster, a room flag, some stickers and a buckle that comes with it. Nothing mind-boggling, but some cool stuff.
WTL: “Ithyphallic” charted #162 on the Billboard Top 200. How are you going to feel if “Those Whom the Gods Detest” charts higher? [“Those Whom the Gods Detest” charted at #160 on the Billboard Top 200.]
Karl: How am I gonna feel? I’m going to wonder what the fuck is going on with the world nowadays! Have CD sales plummeted that much in other genres that death metal CD sales are actually on our Billboard charts? What is wrong with our crazy, upside down technological world? It seems that death metal audiences are just a little more loyal than other music genres who have taken devastating blows to their CD sales. I’ve gotta tell you that CD sales in the death metal realm ain’t that great either, but the difference seems to have leveled out on the sales charts, whereas 5 years ago that wouldn’t have even been dreamable.
WTL: Of the bands that you’ve mentioned as influences I’m wondering what it is that you love about Metallica and Slayer.
Karl: Both Metallica and Slayer changed the rulebook a little bit back in the early 80’s about how “heavy” you could take things. They open the door for a genre to explore even further. How far can a band go? Would any of us really be playing the way we would if it hadn’t been for those bands pioneering work?
WTL: Have you heard many metal bands that have pulled in an Egyptian influence?
Karl: I have a friend in a band called Melechesh which are some Palestinian dudes no longer living in Palestine, and they’ve got an authentic middle eastern thing mixed in with their metal. There’s also an Israeli band called Orphaned Land, and I love both those bands. I think they’re both a bit more focused on the authentic folk aspect, whereas we’re definitely a brutal death metal band with a bit of an influence, but we’re not going to play it like someone who grew up in an indigenous countries certainly have real, true authentic flavour in the way they approach the instrument to begin with. As to us, we’re some American guys that come at this thing from a completely different angle.
WTL: That brings up the question in the way you guys started, because your first drummer, Pete Hammoura is from Lebanon, and you listened to a lot of his families music. Would you say that had a big influence on Nile?
Karl: I’m sure it did! That’s one of the things that Pete Hammoura and I always talked about. Funny story – we dated these twin sisters for like 5 years and we’d be sitting around asking “What would we like to do?” and one of the things we wanted to do was play some metal with middle eastern influences in it. Later on when it was time to make Nile, wondering where we could take this band we said “Well fuck! Let’s just do what we wanna do! Let’s do the stuff that interests us!”
WTL: Do you still keep in close contact with Pete?
Karl: I sure do! In fact he has a guest spot doing some gang vocals, and he’s in the “Hittite Dung Incantation” where he does this Arabic kind of chanting. You cannot mistake him because he’s the guy screaming in Arabic! (Laughs)
WTL: For your new bass player [Chris Lollis], is he going to be a live member, a permanent member, or is there no real plan?
Karl: We’ve been burned so many times with bass players that I hold out little hope for finding a magic person that will be a total equal. For us right now it’s making sense to hire a guy, and hopefully that one guy will stick around, but whether that one guy becomes a permanent member, who knows. I ain’t holding my breath!
WTL: How does it feel to be able to play music for a living?
Karl: It’s great! It’s what I’ve always wanted to do, so I’m happy as a person. Metal is what I love. It’ been my passion for my entire adult life. I feel honoured and privileged to be able to support myself this way.
WTL: For your tours, do you have a direct hand in deciding who’s going to be on that tour?
Karl: Usually not because most of the time the powers that be throw their weight around, but for some reason this time around we actually got listened to and got some bands that we’ve been screaming about, and who we’ve wanted, and they actually fucking listened, and made it fucking happen! I’m really happy to be set up to tour with Immolation and Krisiun, 2 of my favourite bands ever. Holy shit! That’s one heavy metal mother fucking tour!
WTL: I noticed that Ulcerate is set up to tour with you.
Karl: Great stuff! Amazing band! So unique! It’s going to be so awesome to see those guys live!
WTL: How do you feel to have some new fans at your shows, because you’ve reached out beyond extreme metal fans.
Karl: I think music should be for whoever wants to listen to it, not just for one single, select demographic. If we start saying that Niles music is only for people who wear certain shoes, or wear their hair in a certain way, that’s a slippery slope man! I don’t think it matters. If I wanted to go to a jazz show, and listen to John McLaughlin or Al Di Meola, no one in their right mind will say “Dude, I don’t like the way you’re dressed. We don’t like your haircut. Get out.” No! I’m always going to listen to what I wanna listen to, so I want to extend that same respect to anyone who wants to listen to Nile. I mean it’s a god damn free world and free society that we’re hoping to live in here, so I say whoever wants to listen to the band is welcome. I’m not a fucking music racist!
WTL: Where in the world would you like to tour?
Karl: I’ll say Canada, since we haven’t played there through our entire metal career. We’re planning for a North America tour part B, and the plan is to include some Canadian shows, so hell yeah! It’s been a dream of ours, and we have a lot of Canadian fans that write us all the time.
WTL: So many bands are also talking about China.
Karl: It’s an emerging market, and it’s part of our game plan for this current tour cycle to try and hit India, China and Canada!
WTL: It’d be great to see you on my home soil! I saw you play before at the New England Metal and Hardcore Festival.
Karl: That’s a fun show! Scott Lee is a great promoter!
WTL: Who would you like to tour with if you had no rules?
Karl: I think the Page/Plant [guitarist Jimmy Page and vocalist Robert Plant of Led Zeppelin] thing would be pretty cool. I think I’ll go back to Immolation and Krisiun though, because those are 2 bands I REALLY want to fucking tour with that I got denied for the last 10 years, and now the rule book has opened up, and we can tour with ‘em!
WTL: How do you feel about beating everyone to the punch on having Nile for a band name? I’m sure being able to have that is pretty cool.
Karl: Well, I didn’t think of it curiously enough. A friend of ours suggested it and we thought “Why not?” It’s a simple little name that we could put on t-shirts easily, and people will probably be able to remember it. I definitely would’ve picked something a little more death metal sounding, but I guess that’s how stuff happens!
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